Under the Influence with Joanna Nell
“I think loneliness is sort of skin hunger. It’s just that longing for touch and to have someone there.”
Buy MRS WINTERBOTTOM TAKES A GAP YEAR
✨📚 What books have most shaped your writing? In this week’s episode, @pamelacookwrites returns to her ‘Under the Influence’ series where she chats to @joanna_nell_writer about the books that have made a big impact on her career. Prepare to add to your TBR pile because this episode is jam-packed with recommendations and writing advice ✍️❤️
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and Gratitude
01:16 Personal Writing Update
02:24 Introducing Today's Guests
05:51 Guest Author: Anna Fox Kirk's Journey
10:13 Guest Author: Megan Mayfair's Journey
15:37 Collaborative Anthologies
20:19 The 12 Tropes of Christmas Anthology
28:47 Pre-Order and Marketing Strategies
31:48 Exciting Anthology Stories
34:28 Balancing Writing and Life
44:39 Defining Success in Writing
48:52 The Joy of Writing and Anthologies
51:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
This transcript is provided as a companion to the audio episode and has not been edited.
[00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Rights for Women. It's Monday, August 26th as I'm recording this another episode that will be going out this week. And before I get on to introducing my guests today, there are two of them. I just wanna give a great big thank you to everybody who has given me feedback on last week's episode, which is the WA Romance Writers of Australia Conference roundup.
[00:00:25] It was apparently very helpful for those who weren't able to attend the conference, but wanted to find out a little bit more about what was happening there to pick up some of the writing tips that they may have missed out on and just to generally catch up on what happened at the conference.
[00:00:40] Now, you don't have to be a romance writer or a regular attendee of RWA in order for that episode to be of interest to you. I. Kind of do a little summary of the sessions that I attended and included the tips that, the writing tips that the speakers at those sessions gave. So whether you're a romance writer or a regular RWA member or not, I think there's still plenty in there to interest you.
[00:01:07] So if that's one you haven't listened to yet, pop onto your podcast feed and you'll find the RWA conference roundup there, ready and waiting for you. I don't have a lot to report in my own personal writing roundup this week. Other than that, I am pushing through and trying to get words down each day as I approach my deadline for a place.
[00:01:28] Of her own which is my current book, the third in the Blackwater Lake trilogy. I've been calling it a series, but then I worked out, it's actually a trilogy because it's the third installment in one character's story. One of the sessions that I attended at RWA was on writing a series, and that kind of made me think about the term series and the fact that they tend to be stories set in the same place, but often with a different character or protagonist featured in each installment.
[00:01:56] Mine is the one character over three books continuing and developing her story. So I am enjoying that, although I have been a little bit stuck on that. And one thing that I've done this week is to introduce a new character to get me past a block, and I've talked about that a little bit more in today's installment of the Patreon bonus, which has gone out to Patreon peeps just this afternoon.
[00:02:20] And a big shout out to all the Patreon supporters of the podcast. Today's episode is something special. We are getting into the Christmas mood with two fabulous authors who are part of an anthology, a Christmas anthology.
[00:02:37] Now I'll have to stop there because I'm also part of a Christmas anthology once again this year. A country farm Christmas, published by HQ Harper Collins, and that will be out in October. I'll tell you more about that in the coming weeks. But that is up for pre-order. Just as this book, the 12 Tropes of Christmas, is also available
[00:02:56] so my two guest authors are part of the dozen authors who have banded together to create the 12 tropes of Christmas. So just off the back of the romance writers trope actually conference this one sounds like it's gonna be a really fun read. And there is a great selection of stories from fabulous authors and Two of those authors Megan Mayfair and Anna Fox Kirk.
[00:03:20] Are going to tell us all about the anthology today, but not just about the stories themselves, but how it came about. How they worked, collaboratively with other authors to create the anthology, what the bonuses are of being part of an anthology like this.
[00:03:37] And a little bit about their own writing practices as well.
[00:03:40] I hope you enjoyed this chat with Anna Fox Kirk and Megan Mayfair
[00:03:44] So I am very excited to have two fabulous authors here with me on the convo couch at writes for women, Megan Mayfair and Anna Fox Cook. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having us
[00:03:58] before we get going, I've told the listeners a little bit about each of your kind of, stories in terms of your own publishing story, but maybe can we just briefly do a little intro for each of you and if you could tell us about your own path to publication. 'cause we are gonna chat a lot about the anthology that you're both involved with, the 12 Tropes of Christmas.
[00:04:18] But listeners always love to hear about paths to publication because they're so different often and they can be really interesting, so Anna, can we start with you and a little bit about your publishing history?
[00:04:29] Yeah, sure. I've been writing seriously, I suppose since I came to Australia about 11 years ago. And initially I wanted to be traditionally published. I think that's a lot of author's dreams. And in 2020 though, I had a bit of a stroke, which was like a reset for me.
[00:04:47] And I decided rather than pursuing my dreams of being published with historical fiction, I wanted to do something a lot more lighthearted and uplifting. So I started this journey with more rom-com books and I started small, in fact, the first thing I was ever published in was in an anthology with Megan and three other romance writers.
[00:05:07] And that was the sort of New Year's Eve. Style anthology on a luxury yacht in Sydney Harbor with Heroes. And yeah it was a charity event. So that was my first thing I published. And then I went on to I suppose developed stories, short stories that I'd written more into novela size.
[00:05:27] And I decided to self-publish. I'm quite a control freak, some people might say and not the most patient of people. And I realized actually the impact that indie publishing, self-published authors were having even on trad publishing. And the, big five houses. And I decided that I wanted to give it a go myself.
[00:05:47] So I had done well in a few competitions and I've published four novellas, which are now I've gotta try and remember them. So there is, be My Valerie, which is like a Valentine's story Holly Ever After, which was a Christmas novella that I won the Koru for which is a New Zealand Romance Writers award.
[00:06:06] Great story. That one. I love that one. Thank you. Then there was Alice in Wonderlust, which came from the story that I'd done with the girls, the anthology I was just talking about. Can you remember the title, Megan? It was Fireworks and Love and Firework Love and Fireworks. Fireworks, yeah. Was the original.
[00:06:20] And I have also done the latest book that I've released actually is Alice and The Impossible Game, which is a sequel, although it can stand alone. It's a novel length. It's a sequel to Alice in Wanderlust, which is set in Australia, and they're all rom-coms fish out of water enemies to lovers type stories.
[00:06:38] Oh, I love that. And I love that you've you mentioned Anna about that you'd had the stroke and that kind of led you to reassess, what you wanted to do. And you've obviously been. Pursuing that dream of publication. So I just take my hat off to you that you've just seized the day and gone, no, I'm just going to get in there and do this and put these books out.
[00:06:58] And the last couple of years, like you've really seem to have found your groove, . It's been really lovely to watch. Yeah. I, I had some initial encouragement, which was great, even with my historical, so again, I'd won a co com couple of competitions and got long listed in the Richel Award.
[00:07:14] And actually it was interesting going to the RWA conference because their whole talk about how historical is only a step away from fantasy was very interesting for me. 'cause I've been looking at I'd, I've started actually converting one of my historical manuscripts into a romantic, it's historically inspired yeah.
[00:07:32] I think and it was useful hearing, this whole concept of we've gotta pivot. I think as indie authors, you are constantly pivoting, reassessing, looking at what you've done, what you want to do next. And there is quite a lot more freedom, I think, for us to pursue whatever it is that we're passionate about at the time.
[00:07:49] Yeah. You don't get locked into a set genre, do you? I guess if you are producing, ro rom com or historical whatever in the indie space, and you get a following and you've got readers wanting more of that, of course you're gonna do more of that. But it does also give you the ability to break out a little bit, doesn't it?
[00:08:06] You're not quite as locked into a genre box as in tread
[00:08:10] it de it definitely helps, if you've got that readership to keep in your lane, as it were. But yeah, you're not locked out. If I decide, okay, I actually, I wanna do one romantic book a year and one romcom.
[00:08:21] I can do whatever I want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I've been doing my own covers and editing and all that sort of thing as well. So that's part of the process that I enjoy. And I wouldn't really want to hand it over to a traditional publisher to tell what cover I've gotta put on my book,
[00:08:35] no, you've got a vision for it and you're going with that. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. How about you, Megan? What's your story been in terms of getting to that publication stage?
[00:08:45] Thanks Pamela. So I started writing about 20 15, 20 16. I attended Romance Writers of Australia's conference in 2017, and that was an amazing experience.
[00:08:56] It really gave me confidence that I wasn't the only one doing this, and there was a lot of different pathways. Again, a little bit like what Anna said, you sometimes when you come into this, you think that traditional is the only way that things are done. And certainly even though the industry's moved a lot since 2017 I could really see that there was a lot of other opportunities and people doing really interesting things with their art and their work.
[00:09:18] Around that point, I did sign with a small publisher outta the UK crooked Cat books. And they were a wonderful support. They gave me a lot of confidence that my writing was going in the right direction. They gave me a lot of support in terms of some editing and some networks and just opened my eyes up to some of the marketing.
[00:09:34] Aspects. So I published four books with them a standalone and a three book series. After that point, I decided that I would like to give India a go. A little bit like what Anna touched on. I wanted the room to move into a couple of different genres. I like writing women's fiction.
[00:09:48] I like writing contemporary romance. And I also like cozy mystery, romantic suspense, so I tend to dabble in a couple of different genres. I've even written a medical romance. Sometimes just ideas strike me. And yeah, I like to move around and go see where things take me. So from that perspective, indie has worked really well.
[00:10:07] For me to be able to just spread my wings. I like to learn about different genres and learn to write them and see what other people are doing and learn the structures of them and the tropes of them and how they work, how the characters work. So I, from that perspective, being able to dabble in a couple of different genres has really been a fantastic opportunity.
[00:10:26] So I've yeah, moved around a couple of different genres and yeah, since really 2021. 2020 have been indie.
[00:10:34] Oh, I love that. And I love, like you say you've dabbled in different genres. Do you find that things that you're learning in one genre then you can take into the other genre and are you writing cross genre stories? How does that work?
[00:10:46] Look, there is a little bit of cross genre. One of my series that I wrote over the last few years was definitely a little bit, it wasn't quite cozy mystery, but it wasn't quite romance. I a little bit of that. There's always a romance in mine. I don't care what it is, I have to have a romance in it.
[00:10:59] But I think. Working in that cozy mystery space really did help me in terms of understanding the elements of suspense and timing. I think that sometimes in romance we can get a little bit obviously the focus on that central relationship between the main characters is so critical, but I think sometimes we can forget a little bit about those, some of those external pressures, time pressures beating the clock that can apply to love and romance as equally as it can to finding a murderer.
[00:11:24] So that has been a really eye, a really great eye opener to remind me of some of those elements to ensure that all I guess all stories have those stakes that you can continue to raise.
[00:11:34] So true. And I'm guessing that you have learned a lot about kind of the business side of publishing along the way, the marketing and promotion.
[00:11:42] How has that been, that learning curve?
[00:11:44] , my background's in PR and corporate communication, so some of the things were quite natural to me. So I really like newsletters. I love a newsletter.
[00:11:53] I think you may be the only author that I've ever heard, say.
[00:11:55] I know. I love newsletters.
[00:12:00] They're good fun. I did a talk at last year's RWA about author newsletters. And I hoped I few people left enthusiastic as I was not sure, but hopefully. But I really enjoy those aspects. So some of those aspects were quite straightforward. Other things. I was lucky enough to be able to learn the ropes when I was with the smaller publisher, which was fantastic.
[00:12:19] But again, there's always something to learn and it does move even since 20 18, 20 19, things like the ebook market, the audio book market and then other elements we're seeing authors move into things like Patreon and whole New Frontier. It just weren't there even a few ago.
[00:12:35] So it's really fascinating. It doesn't stand still.
[00:12:38] . Yeah. I had Sasha Wesley on the podcast a few weeks ago and she's doing a, oh, it's finished now, but she was doing a Kickstarter campaign for indie publishing Her Ya novel, like she's she's re revamped an older story, given it a new cover, and she set up a Kickstarter campaign and that's something, I'd heard of Kickstarters, but I hadn't really heard of them being used in that way.
[00:12:59] And it's, it was such an interesting conversation to find out, about this. It's basically setting up a pre-order system for the book. And I thought, what a great idea.
[00:13:09] Joanna Penn's a huge enthusiast of those Kickstarter campaigns. Yeah. And she another podcast that I like listening to. Yeah, it's fascinating.
[00:13:17] I haven't tried it yet myself, but it's something that I've
[00:13:19] definitely got my eye on. I think it's just that different ways to engage audiences, and I think audiences can really love to be part of that journey with you. I think that, and that's why, on a really basic level, a newsletter, you can keep people updated on your progress.
[00:13:33] Keep them apprised of a word count or how you're going with the project. But Kickstarter, Patreon, they take those to a whole new level that people can really feel heavily invested in and almost part of that outcome. And I think that's really cool. And it shows that readers really are looking for our words.
[00:13:49] They want our work. They wanna actually put their money where their mouth is and get behind something that hasn't even been finished yet. Yeah. Which is really cool.
[00:13:56] And I think they like that. Like you say, Megan, about the newsletter, they like that kind of sneak peek, into the authors process and what's happening behind the scenes.
[00:14:05] So you mentioned that you've both been involved in anthologies together before. We are gonna get onto talking about the new one, the 12 tropes of Christmas in a minute. But can you tell us a little bit about for the others you've been involved in and then maybe leading into the 12 tropes of Christmas?
[00:14:20] How do these things come about? How is it that you suddenly, are with a group of other authors writing stories around a theme and then producing it together?
[00:14:29] It's actually a really interesting question because I've been involved, I think in five now, and each one has actually started in a really different way.
[00:14:38] Oh, okay. So I was involved in a cozy mystery, anthology that we made a USA today bestselling list on, which was a fantastic experience. Amazing, oh brilliant authors, brilliant business people really in terms of the marketing. And that came really by kind of accident. I was in a cozy mystery author group on Facebook and there was a call out of, we are looking to do this, we need a couple of other authors.
[00:15:02] There was another Australian author in it who I was able to reach out to and ended up in that way. So that was very much just having some connections and some networks with some broader author communities that I was able to just jump into and think. That sounds great. I'll get involved in that.
[00:15:17] The Love and Fireworks one, which Anna and I were involved in was really a group of friends having a glass of champagne in Sydney. We, I love that. We were there for the, yeah, we were there for the Australian Romance Readers Association Awards and book signings. And it was myself and Stella Quinn and Marianne Bayless and Jane Kingsley I think it was Stella, the brilliant Stella Quinn. I think it was her idea of, oh, imagine New Year's Eve on an amazing yacht. And you could have all these different stories with different people. And so we each wrote a story and it set around the same New Year's Eve party on a yacht.
[00:15:48] It was a charity event. So we had people who would, yeah, charity, Australian heroes. Yeah. Okay. Oh, lovely. Yeah. Yes. And I think Anna's story was the band and my story. I had a journalist seeking a story and just different things happening. So that was a lot of fun. That just came purely for just wanting to collaborate and have a good time together, which was just pure joy.
[00:16:10] Which is, I think a really nice way to collaborate with each other and get some feedback as well from each other. It's a really good way you share stories and you share them around the group and we all get to offer some feedback, get other people to read them. And that's one of the things I've really valued about being in some of the collaborations I've been in.
[00:16:29] I was involved in one, another, one that Anna was in with some authors from Australia and New Zealand, and there's some really heavy hitter authors in there. Really very successful, very brilliant writers. And to have them read my work, and give me feedback and give me encouragement, that's, that's almost worth.
[00:16:45] Doing it just for that
[00:16:46] yeah. You learn so much as well in terms of how they would approach it and how they would publicize it or market it and so yeah, you're constantly learning from other authors, which is great. But it's funny isn't it, that you are now in an anthology or have been and about to be another one.
[00:17:01] I think. Am I allowed to say that with Stella? Yes, with Stella. I loved your Christmas one, so I'm looking forward to the next one too. Yeah.
[00:17:10] Yeah, that's, so we did the anthology last year with HQ Harper Collins. There were five of us. Last year and I did a podcast episode about that. Yeah. And yeah, this year there's four of us in there, including Stella.
[00:17:22] Last year's was a vet country vet Christmas. This is a country farm Christmas, oh, nice. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And funnily enough, I was a little bit hesitant to start with, 'cause I'd never written a novella and, I always think big, long term, big picture stories kind of thing.
[00:17:36] And penny Janu, actually the whole group, Stella, Alyssa Callan and Lily, I was emailing and saying, okay, girls, what do I do? Tell me, help. But, and we didn't read each other's beforehand. But it was great to be part of that. Group and to feel like, that really collaborative type of approach to it.
[00:17:53] And and of course we've read them all since and they're fabulous. It's been really lovely to be part of it. And you, like you say, you just feel like part of that really strong community, that little network that you've got going there and and, but I love that idea that you're swapping stories beforehand and really, getting feedback and learning from each other.
[00:18:10] That sounds fantastic.
[00:18:11] Yeah, we've done that in the current one. Anna's a fantastic editor. Which has been brilliant, and I love, loved her feedback on my story. It's definitely a better story because of her feedback. But I also had feedback from two other authors in it who are incredibly successful and brilliant writers themselves to get that feedback.
[00:18:27] It was it was really nice. It was really good. And there's things in it that I've looked at and gone, oh, that's a really handy piece of advice. I might tuck that away for the next book I write, or keep that in mind. So I think I, I like learning. Part of it is the learning journey for me.
[00:18:40] So I'd love to get that feedback as an opportunity to learn and grow and hopefully be a better writer.
[00:18:45] , definitely. Anna, tell us about the 12 trope of Christmas and how this particular anthology came about. There's 12 of you in it. How did it happen?
[00:18:54] I think I had a bad dream. No, I woke up, it must have been after the previous years Romance Writers conference, and they announced that the next.
[00:19:05] Theme was gonna be trope actually. And I woke up one morning thinking quite fancy, doing another Christmas anthology. And I was thinking Tropes, tropes, 12 tropes of Christmas. And I hadn't really thought very seriously about it, but I happened to be going to a Romance Writers Association of Victoria Meetup in Melbourne at the beginning of the year, and I was sitting next to Sandy Barker.
[00:19:28] Nicola Marsh, Heidi, Catherine was there as well, and I just brought it up in conversation thinking they'd go, oh, don't be daft. They all went, yeah, that's a great idea. We'll do it. So I was so shocked. I then thought, oh, now I better put, a bit of effort where my, I've just, my big mouth has just gone.
[00:19:46] And so very quickly actually got some other authors on board and, put this idea ahead that we're all gonna pick one trope. Although there's always crossover of tropes in any romance story really, but focus mainly on one trope. I set up a Facebook group for us all where we could share.
[00:20:05] And then there, there was a whole beta system. So I said I wanted to spread the workload a little bit. Each of us beta read and gave feedback to somebody else's story. So there was that sort of initial bit of feedback. And then I also gave feedback to all the authors and, I'm in the process of just doing final edits now.
[00:20:24] Yeah it took off really fast and unexpectedly. I've been very fortunate in terms of the authors we've got on board a lot of them are so experienced and so helpful and so it is like you've got the shared pool of knowledge and experience that I'm able to draw on. And I also want to mention Anne Freeman, who has just been Oh, yes.
[00:20:44] Fabulous. In terms of the publicity the PR person I always dreamed to be, but never was. I had, I used to PR for Microsoft as well and run that press center, but that was, she's incredible. It's really just been like. Taken off with that. So that's been great. And she's much more organized than I am because I think we're all juggling jobs and all the rest of it.
[00:21:05] But yeah, so a big thank you to her too. But everybody has chipped in. Two heads are better than one then I think 12 heads, six times better than two. So it's been really helpful for me in that whole process. Although Anne likes to call me Commander in chief, I think 'cause of my ex-military background, she is actually really, I feel being the linchpin for an awful lot of stuff.
[00:21:28] But yeah, it's been a fun experience so far
[00:21:30] oh, fantastic. And I know what you mean by and recently. Hosted the podcast for me and interviewed Casey Knot, and I've had Anne on the podcast before herself, but it was fabulous to me, Anne in real life at wa and she's even funnier in real life than she's on Zoom or whatever.
[00:21:46] So yeah, she is an absolute dynamo. So I totally get what you're saying. Yeah. So you were the kind of brains behind it. I wouldn't say that by the sound of it. Don't be modest. I had an idea, but it sounds like everybody took it and ran with it. Megan, when you're doing this sort of thing and how did it work for this particular anthology and maybe, if there were any differences with others that you've done in terms of setting the parameters around, the types of stories, the length, all those sorts of things.
[00:22:17] I think Mo most I've been involved in, we've generally had fairly clear guidelines in terms of what the sort of stories are going to be in terms of sensuality level in terms of the setting. So for example, we did in Australia, New Zealand, Christmas down under type one. So it was very clear that we were all to write, hot summer.
[00:22:36] Christmas, beach, cricket, those kinds of things. Yeah. Word counts, things like that. So a lot of those were quite similar and I find that most anthologies tend to be, you really do need that because otherwise it can feel a bit like a selection of random stories, which can be nice, but it can also be a little bit tricky to market and to find your ideal reader if you're not, have that nice, clear, this is what you're gonna get, you're gonna get 12 stories about Christmas.
[00:22:59] So I think that was good. We did have, I guess the other element there that we all had a different trope, so we really needed to think about the trope ear early because it wasn't just a Christmas romance, it was the Christmas romance with a romcom element in that trope. So there was a little bit of thinking.
[00:23:16] I probably had to think about the story I wanted to write. A little earlier in terms of what trope that was gonna fit into, and then made sure I kept fitting into that trope that I didn't go off on my own, which sometimes when you are riding, you can, if you're, a bit of a cancer, you can end up somewhere completely different.
[00:23:33] So that kind of had to, it kept me on the straight and narrow. So that was fun. I like a challenge and writing to some of those elements in terms of the word count the trope, the romcom element, it was it was good fun. I enjoyed it.
[00:23:45] There were fairly clear guidelines and I asked all the authors to sign a contract. We had fairly set deadlines. I want this by this stage, it has to go to Peter readers by this date. And although I did set parameters on the word count, they have stretched a little bit, but that's fine. It still works well as an anthology.
[00:24:05] So what was the word count? Guideline, Anna.
[00:24:09] It was anything from 5,000 to 15, and I think the longest one we have, or a couple that we have is about 17, I did do a little bit of asking them to cut down in certain areas. But yeah, so they're more what I would really, they're not quite novellas.
[00:24:24] They're more like yeah.
[00:24:25] Yeah. Long, short stories. I guess with 12 people, you've gotta, keep it fairly contained, haven't you?
[00:24:30] Initially we were just gonna do an ebook. In which case it's not as important, but I think you want to feel that they all belong to the same sort of framework.
[00:24:39] Because if one is suddenly 50,000 words and all the words for 20, it'll stick out like a sore thumb and it just won't feel quite right in that. So there are all sorts of considerations that came to when I was deciding the order of the stories and what would go well next to another story.
[00:24:57] We had Excel spreadsheets that Anne was great at as well. I think I put one up that was very messy and unreadable and Anne went, let me just sort that out to you, in terms of characters names. So we didn't have crossover names. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. What the blog or the elevator strap line pitch, whatever was gonna look like, just so that we started to get a feel for each other's stories as well.
[00:25:21] And there wasn't crossover or overlap too much.
[00:25:23] And did you have people trampling over the top of each other to get their favorite trope. How did you work that out? Like I'm all for enemies to lovers. That would definitely be the one I would be after. But was it first in first served?
[00:25:35] It really was. So I put tropes up on the Facebook group. And it was come and just get in there. And then yeah, there was a few people who were a bit later to the group, but they weren't set 12 tropes. They could choose another trope or, yeah. 'cause there's so many tropes we could have done.
[00:25:50] And are they all different? Does each story have a different trope?
[00:25:54] Yes. That's the whole idea that yeah, there are 12 different tropes. Yeah, of course. The title. Yeah. And they also I didn't want erotic. But I didn't set a steam level.
[00:26:03] 'cause it's Christmas as well, rather than the oh, one chili, two chili, three chilies. At the beginning of each sort story, we've set a sort of. Steam level, but we've used gingerbread men Spice. Oh, I love that. The Spice Gingerbread man, that was another one of Anne Freeman's garage. Oh, that is so good.
[00:26:20] They do vary from Sweet with one gingerbread man right up to three where yeah, gingerbread man definitely gets his clothes on and gets stuck in like graphic. Yeah. Oh, love that. Because we all have different styles and so
[00:26:32] . Yeah. Anna, I know you are editing it and collating it and everything, but have you had an opportunity to read all the stories in there yet, Megan?
[00:26:39] No, I haven't. So I'm looking forward to diving into a couple of them. Yeah, I've read some of the little blurbs, so I've got a little bit of a sense of what's going on. So I'll look forward to diving into them. Brilliant.
[00:26:50] I am going to send them out to all the authors probably in about, I want to be totally happy that I've got the order right and they're edited.
[00:27:00] To perfection. And then I'll send them out probably beginning of September to all the authors so they can read and give any feedback. And of course you're always gonna miss some stuff. And
[00:27:10] yeah. But at least with all those eyes on it, you've got more chance of picking everything up,
[00:27:14] Is it already available for pre-order?
[00:27:16] It's not For pre-order already, yes. And it's going really well. We've already, it's been very exciting. In fact, I've been looking at your anthology as well. So it's been exciting for the, to look at the sort of hot new releases that are out in our categories or holiday romance.
[00:27:30] And a few times we've hit number one, which has been great in Amazon Australia, and I think number four in holiday romances. It does change an awful lot. But again, it was interesting. So Nicola Marsh, who's a USA today bestselling author, Nick, a star. Yeah. And again, knows so much about this sort of thing.
[00:27:50] Got in touch with me and she said, Anna, I think if you change categories, we might perform a little bit better. So when you're uploading to Amazon, you choose your categories and your keywords and yeah. So again, it's just drawing on the strength of the whole. Yeah. And that's made a big difference for us.
[00:28:05] I think that has really helped our visibility and getting it out there. Okay. But yes, it's up for Peda for 99 cents. We launched 1st of October and then shortly after that it will go up to full price. And we're now doing a, I'm doing a pap print. I've done a print wraparound cover, which I'm so pleased with as well.
[00:28:25] So it's. I think it's pretty front and back, so I'm hoping some people might like it as a, actual physical stocking filler as well as, yeah.
[00:28:33] Fantastic. I was actually amazed last year, never having kind as I said, never written no Villa never really been in an anthology other than one that my writing group put together many years ago of just different bits and pieces that we'd written.
[00:28:45] I was amazed at how popular Christmas anthologies are, like, we were really happy with the sales of ours and I think people love to get get some in the Christmas spirit. They're great, like you say, and a great stocking fillers and just really gets people in the mood, I think for the Christmas, that whole Christmas period.
[00:29:04] Yeah, definitely. And when people are on holidays sometimes, it is nice to be able to read a shorter form book if you buy the pool after Christmas, or I know some people who like to curl up. In the lead up to Christmas after they've done the shopping and the cooking and things like that, and tying up work things and school things and whatnot, and just cuddle up with it with one or two sort of smaller stories.
[00:29:23] It is quite nice and I think it can take you to a different Christmas. I know that I have American readers that really enjoy reading about Australian Christmas because it's just such a different world. Particularly the ones that are up in the north in Chicago or Wisconsin or somewhere that to be reading about us playing beach cricket and, cooking things on the barbecue.
[00:29:42] It's just a completely a complete escape. And same vice versa in terms of that white Christmas feeling for us Yeah. In the warmer climates. So I think they work really well for the time of year. Yes, definitely. Watching your favorite. Christmas movies as well. Yes. Yeah, you just want that feel good buzz before Christmas and after Christmas as well.
[00:30:01] I think books are equally as popular in, in terms of especially Christmas books that time of year. There's a whole separate market almost for those yeah. Holiday romance, which is what it tends to pull under does really well.
[00:30:15] Yeah, and as someone who has read all of the stories, can you give us a little taste of, what some of the things happening in the, some of those stories might be just a little overview.
[00:30:26] Yes. Maybe a bit obviously without Yeah, no they're amazing stories. We've got anything from, we have a great holiday romance story, so they're not all set in Australia. Okay. Although they're all written by Australian authors. We've got one in America, which is a, snowed in. Close proximity type story.
[00:30:45] We've got one that's a holiday. Romance in, I'm gonna get this wrong now. Maldives. Maldives. Yeah. We've got mine is a jilted bride type stories set in the uk. Megan's is set in Australia and is and why don't you tell everybody about your story? Another fabulous story.
[00:31:02] . I chose the trope fake relationship, which I've never written before, but I was actually quite curious to, to try that out. So I have someone who's going through a bit of a rough patch with, she's lost her business and things are looking down and she's gotta go back to her small country town to face the family for Christmas.
[00:31:20] And she's at a bit of a low point and the family's very competitive. And there's a, the country pub has a annual trivia quiz on Christmas and it's the whole thing and it's all gets very competitive amongst all the siblings and the brothers-in-law and the parents. Luckily she has a a long-term admirer who jumps in and he agrees to accompany her as her boyfriend, just to give a bit of a lift and that things aren't too bad, things are going well and goes back and the family are.
[00:31:48] Somewhat strange in terms of the level of competition. Everything from eating a sandwich fast enough to going down slip and slides as fast as they can, all kinds of different things. So it's a little bit of a madcap story, but it was really good fun to write and good to embrace story. Just those fun elements again of that Australian Christmas.
[00:32:06] A slip and slide in the backyard is not something you're definitely generally gonna see in most other parts of the world, probably.
[00:32:11] No, it's a wonderful story. And then there's, there's others that's a, stuck in an island off Yeah. Queensland coast type story. You've got a game show type story that trope, the whole game show.
[00:32:25] Yeah. There's a rock star being, bad boy story, not a rock star, an actor where he is been made up as Santa Claus and, so there's all, they're very much Christmas themed. Yeah. But there's a lot of fun in them and yeah. . I'm very I'm proud to have such amazingly talented friends actually, and to have somehow weasel my way into my own apology.
[00:32:49] It's way to do it.
[00:32:52] Smart idea. I like it. And it's well done.
[00:32:55] Now what are you girls doing in terms of the marketing strategy? So Anna, you talked about, obviously putting it up on Amazon in the right categories, all that sort of thing is important. What how are you working out the marketing strategy and then how are you going to go about implementing that?
[00:33:12] Anne Freeman, isn't that the strategy
[00:33:15] A fun project. I, the right at the beginning I was like, I'm not interested in hitting bestseller lists. It's more about collaborating, having some fun. Megan always has this word that I'm always banging on about 'cause I think it's just brilliant. Which is about repurposing your writing. So we are, therefore we are creating collateral for ourselves to use however we want afterwards.
[00:33:40] We're just tied in for three months and then the anthology will disappear. People won't be able to get it after. End of December, so it is a short term thing. We're not throwing loads of money into marketing at all. So there was a small cost to join the anthology, and that is our very limited marketing budget. We've looked as much as possible at how we can maximize our free publicity. And then we've done some small things, like a little bit of advertising in the rwa magazine paid for. And then, because I am very time poor and all of us are time poor actually, and because I'm not a marketing guru and everybody has a different line of what works, what doesn't work, I've actually gone with written word media and they have a couple of different launch packages.
[00:34:30] So I'm. Just using basic launch package. And that covers things like Facebook ads, various magazines that they put your book into. It gives you a dedicated publicity specialist who you can talk to as well. Yeah, so it would go in a lot of people who don't self-publish wouldn't be familiar with, but things like read Booksy, bargain, Booksy, red Feather books, so a lot of those cater to American readers.
[00:34:54] But it's a sort of, I have gone a little bit, I'm just gonna do this one thing because I haven't got the time to work out how I'm gonna do all the Amazon ads or how I'm gonna do a hundred million things when I'm also teaching three days a week.
[00:35:08] . Yeah, also been harnessing our own networks as well
[00:35:12] Yeah. Multiplying all the different ways in which each individual author will then. Get the book out into the world and let their own networks know about it, aren't you?
[00:35:20] .
[00:35:20] It sounds like it's repurposing something you're very passionate about, the repurposing.
[00:35:25] It's a bit of an old PR trick in that, if you write a piece of writing, what could you get uses out of it? A speech can become a blog or an opinion piece, a newsletter article can become a website, content, that kind of thing.
[00:35:37] So I always like to write things that I think, oh, I can actually get a few uses out of this. So everything that I've ever written for an anthology, I've then published separately and I've used it as a lead magnet, or I've entered it in competition, or I've popped it on my website as a freebie, or I've given it as a reader bonus.
[00:35:54] Sometimes my old Christmas novellas. Sometimes I'll offer them to my newsletter readers at Christmas time as a bit of a free free bonus. Forward onto your friends if you want, and they can grab a free copy. So I like to be able to, at times get more than one use out of the one piece of writing.
[00:36:09] That's smart. It's very smart.
[00:36:11] Yeah. She's a smart lady.
[00:36:14] We put so much of our heart and soul into it. So it's great to see then it getting into hands of different people and being used in different ways.
[00:36:21] . Now you mentioned anna, and of course I know, through our connection through scribes that you are being, you've been working full-time.
[00:36:28] So you are, you're teaching, are you working five days a week? Not full-time. I think that would kill me. Okay. Until to work full time. I just work three days a week.
[00:36:38] How do you juggle your time in terms of, fitting in the writing? If you've got a book out and you've gotta market it or, planning the next book editing as you are for the anthology, Anna, how do you go about making sure that you've got, the time to do everything basically?
[00:36:54] I don't have time to do everything. My writing has pretty much gone on hold a little bit because I didn't quite realize in my infinite stupidity how much time editing 12 stories would take and just pulling it together and designing the cover. And so it has been a bit of a time suck. Is that an awful word to say?
[00:37:19] I've loved every minute, so I don't, I'm time juggle. Time juggle, let's say time. Pretty sure. Yeah. And I will come back to my own writing and, because I'm passionate about the books and fiction and romance writing that's really where I'd like to spend the majority of my time. And I do find at the moment, the majority of my time is with school, preparing lessons, marking, all that sort of thing.
[00:37:42] So yeah, it's trying to, it's life is always trying to find that balance. It works for you, isn't it? And Sand's shift, unfortunately. So things do change.
[00:37:51] Yeah. So when you are not putting together an anthology and you are doing your three days a week teaching, do you try and then just dedicate time on the other days, on your days off to your writing?
[00:38:01] How do you actually fit it?
[00:38:02] It's just between in the cracks sort of thing. Yes, totally, but as much as possible unlike Megan, my kids are quite a bit older now, it wasn't that long ago. It feels to me when I'd get a call at three o'clock, three 15 going, mom, are you actually gonna come pick us up from school?
[00:38:16] 'cause once I get into my writing, I'm just there. And I think actually this is a really important health thing. I think that was why I had my stroke. It was all down to having a hole in my heart. And because I sit there and I write and I don't get up and move about enough, and I so I have to constantly remind myself if I am writing these days at least every two or three hours to get up and walk about, and make time for exercise.
[00:38:42] Yeah. Think about a little bit more about what I'm eating and what I'm doing to my body as I get older. So yeah, it was a. Slightly scary lesson to learn, but a very valuable one as well.
[00:38:53] Thank you for sharing that.
[00:38:54] And 'cause I think that's something, that we all tend to do. You can sit there, sometimes I'll, like this morning when I was writing, I thought, oh, okay. I think I've been here for about three hours. I probably better get up and move around. It's just so easy to fall into that trap, isn't it?
[00:39:08] Yeah. I think it, we take our health for granted until maybe something goes wrong and my husband and I refer to being in our fifties as Sniper Alley. I think once, once you get to 50, you really need to be, if you can pay attention more in your forties, even better. But I'm ex-military as well, and I was very active.
[00:39:25] I've always, we've always been fairly active and done stuff, but I think it, it was a real, wake up call for me. Yeah. And it made me reassess my priorities and just get back in touch with nature more. I started going swimming in the sea lots. So yes, I love this thing called writing, but I am addicted to it and I have to actually make sure I moderate how much I write as well.
[00:39:49] Yeah. It's easy just to not stop. Yeah. And then you neglect your family or you neglect your health or. Yeah,
[00:39:57] it's getting that balance. How about you, Megan? You have got younger kids. How are you working outside of your writing at the moment, or how do you juggle everything?
[00:40:05] I do, yeah. I work full time in communications and learning and development, which is I love that buzz of people and the workplace and the energy of that.
[00:40:17] So that keeps me pretty busy. And the kids keep me busy, so I protect my writing time quite carefully. And I have times in the week where I do dedicate to that. I probably probably about two years ago, I actually went to RWA in Fremantle and I'm Melbourne based, so we were locked up for a long time.
[00:40:32] And I think there was, I think there was a good chance we weren't even gonna get to conference that year because I don't think we were allowed in the state until well into the new year. But when I went and again, I feel like we've thrown her in it a few times, but I was at the airport and Stella Quinn, who's a great friend of mine, she said to me, she said, Megan.
[00:40:48] You look tired, and I just thought I'm tired. And it hit me with a bit of a thing of, oh my goodness, I'm so tired. I'm so tired. And I just realized that through, through, I wrote incredible amounts during lockdown because we didn't have school sport. We weren't able to go anywhere.
[00:41:06] So there was a lot of time. I wrote an incredible amount of words and put out quite a few books and it was exhausting. It was really exhausting. So I really. In the two years since then, I've probably ditched a lot of marketing stuff. I've probably taken a bit more of a, I'll write it and if they read it.
[00:41:24] If they don't read it, they don't read it. A view now that probably won't be the case forever. I'm sure I'll probably get a bit more into that marketing groove, but I had a look at what I was doing, the time I had, and again as Anna said, prioritizing, getting out for a walk, going to yoga, going to Pilates, doing those things that are important for me, I wanna have a long career in writing and in other things and be there for my family.
[00:41:47] So really prioritizing that and prioritizing the things I really like. I did Becca Simon's course, and that was a real eyeopener in terms of, understanding that it's okay not to do everything. It's okay. You don't have to be doing every single type of marketing there is out there. And it really gave me permission to be able to step back and say, I really, I just really wanna focus on the writing now and what comes.
[00:42:11] That's one of the dangers I think, particularly of maybe romance writers. 'cause you hear so much about this romance writer is so prolific and she's producing Den book again, la she get these Amazon ads and is now seven billions of books. And yeah. You cannot do everything and you've got to figure out what works for you.
[00:42:30] And you, I think, yeah, I think it's really important to take a step back and a deep breath and think I'm not, it doesn't matter if I just do one or two books every year. It doesn't matter if I'm not Colleen Hoover or whoever, actually Yeah. Why are you writing? I write for the joy of it and because it's so immersive and you get dragged into the world that you're creating or whatever.
[00:42:52] Yeah. So I think it's very easy for us to get sucked into this idea. We've gotta do more. Yeah. Actually often. And it's not a sprint. It's no sprint.
[00:43:02] That's so true, Megan. And a couple of things there, just based on what you've both said. So do you find that I guess now that you've both been doing it for a while in, in terms of being in that indie space, but do you find that there is that kind of pressure to be putting out, multiple books a year, say, or certainly more than perhaps one a year?
[00:43:22] Is that pressure still there in the indie space? I know it was there, a few years ago that was very much the case. Is it then just a matter of going you say that doesn't work for me or whatever. How do you both manage that part of the indie publishing space?
[00:43:37] I think there definitely did seem to be a bit of fever pitch a couple of years ago about this was the way you need to be successful.
[00:43:44] You need to put out this many books a year, and you need to be doing these sort of eight, eight things. And I think that people did that and then didn't necessarily have that success and were like, oh, what's wrong with me? Or I failed, or, this is no good, or whatever. Or burn out or burnt them out, burn themselves out.
[00:43:59] Some people can write incredibly quickly and produce a lot of books. Other people can't. We all think differently. And that was one thing that I really learned from doing the strengths work with Becca Simones, was that we're all different and we work in a really different way. And some people need a lot of time to think and feel about their characters and other people can get it out on a page really quickly and that's fine.
[00:44:18] So I think. I think there has been a little bit of a shift. I certainly did feel, I don't know about you both, but some of the conversations I had at conference, I felt that some people were maybe just, taking it a little slower. And focusing on, on, what they, the next project or maybe rejigging things.
[00:44:36] Not trying to do every form of marketing out there. Maybe just selecting a couple they like. So I think there'll always be people who go at it a million miles an hour and good luck to them, and that's wonderful. And if it works for them, that's fantastic. But I think there's also a realization that it just doesn't necessarily work for every style of writing.
[00:44:52] And it is a creative process too. We don't write to template. We are creative beings and this is a creative output and that looks different for everyone. Whether you're a painter or you make movies or whatever it is. Everyone works at a very different pace. Yeah. I think it's a bit of a self-inflicted.
[00:45:10] Guilt or wound or pressure, we're all hard on ourselves. Yeah. How do you define success? Do you define success just by the amount of money you earn? Do you define success actually by the quality of your book or the number of books you produced? So I think as individuals we need to really take a deep look at ourselves and decide what it is that is most important.
[00:45:33] It's lovely though for those people who are making enormous amounts of money and doing really well. I'm so pleased. It's, it is always lovely to hear those stories. But I no longer think I've gotta be one of those people. And also for me, actually the quality of what I write is really important as well.
[00:45:50] And I know if I was producing. A huge number of books. I think I would lose some of that quality and I would lose quality me time with my family. Yeah. So again, how do you find define success?
[00:46:04] . For me, it's not just about making a whole load of money.
[00:46:08] . I think they're excellent points. And it's interesting, it's something I've been thinking about a bit since the conference because, and I think that, it's very easy to get pulled into a bit of comparisonitis, you kind get talking to other people or hear what other people are doing and, hear, one of the authors, one of the keynote speakers, oh, I write a book in 10 days and I'm like, oh God, I've been trying to write the same book for six months.
[00:46:30] I'm still, it takes me that long Christmas card, 10 days. And I know for me, a few of the authors that I spoke to and I see them at conference most years, but I don't know, for some reason this year, it just, maybe I'm, it's me getting older and thinking, how many books do I have left in me?
[00:46:46] I don't know. But talking to other people and comparing myself in terms of how many books have they put out, and how many books have I put out and why haven't I put out that many books, but I think at the end of the day, like you say, you've got to think about your lifestyle.
[00:47:00] What works for you in terms of how you're spending your time and sure, there's all things that, that we can change and mix up, but everybody has their own process, their own set of circumstances, their own things that work for them. And at the end of the day, I guess you do have to work out what is your own definition of success and and then really go with that, don't you?
[00:47:19] That was finding the joy again. I really felt that I'd lost that joy when I was trying to crank out too many words. And trying to chase, chase everything where I found that once I was able to slow down a little bit, I was able to rediscover that joy.
[00:47:32] I could be slightly controversial as well here. Good. . I wonder as well if some of that, especially when we go to a romance writers conference, is a result of the fact that we, reward is maybe the wrong thing, but we celebrate the number of books people have sometimes written.
[00:47:50] Like they've written 50 books, a hundred books. And I think maybe that has come from traditional publishing of category books, possibly. And I'm not saying this is definite, I'm just putting it out there for people and maybe, yeah, there's, they, those aren't the only ways to celebrate success.
[00:48:08] They're great milestones and achievements, but, could be another thing that's just working in our subconscious there, where you think, wow, they've written 50 books. Wow. They've written 300 books. I think somebody was saying, and I just think never, I could live to three and I won't write 300 books.
[00:48:24] That's true. I'm too lazy. Anyway, there's a lot going on. , it's a bit like, when we were young you had to be thin and, glamorous and all the rest of it. And we these ideas that are inculcated in us from a young age. And maybe it's the same thing.
[00:48:39] Things go on the back of your mind and you think, I've gotta produce, I've gotta produce more. Or, I'm not gonna be successful or I'm not ever gonna make a living. Or, yeah, but,
[00:48:48] and like you say, I think it all comes back to. Making sure that you are finding joy in the writing. Why do it if it's gonna be a grind and it's something that just it's chore.
[00:48:58] Like we went into this because it's a passion and we love to do it. So we need to keep reminding ourselves about that and making sure that's what we are doing. And I think that's what's so great about this anthology that you've put together. Just bringing us back over to that, that, it does sound like a really joyful experience and something you know, that as a group you've already had so much fun with and are going to continue to have fun with in the coming months.
[00:49:21] And to bring other people joy when they're reading it as well.
[00:49:24] I think it's celebrating Christmas. It's celebrating with our friends. 'cause we're, we all pretty much know each other. I think there's one author I haven't met, but she's a friend of Sandy's who I know of. Ida Brady, who's in Ireland at the moment.
[00:49:39] But she's, I've met, I she's lovely. Yeah. It's celebrating Christmas, celebrating, working with friends. It's celebrating Aussie authors, which I'm so proud to be part of this community. Yeah, so I think it's in, in so many ways. It is a joyful thing. I'm very proud of what we've done and, I think it's gonna be great.
[00:49:58] It's al it already to me feels great. Im, I maybe know a little bit more about what's going on behind the scenes than Megan, but I'm sure as soon as you read all the rest of the stories, Megan, apart from the ones you've already beat or read, you'll be thinking, wow. Yeah. Oh, and some of the authors whose stories I haven't read, I'm huge fans of their work, so I'm, know that it's gonna be fantastic.
[00:50:16] I feel like I'm on a sleigh ride with Santa already, I love that. I can't wait to hop on the sleigh with myself and read the book when it comes out. I am gonna ask you the question I ask everybody at the end of the podcast, and that is what is at the heart of your writing. Megan, can we kick off with you?
[00:50:36] That's really, it's a really tricky one, isn't it? I think the heart of the writing for me. Often is community. I really like writing about community and I think that finding that connection and being part of something is really important. And that comes through in my stories often. I love writing communities and writing lots of different characters and quirky characters and interesting people that we meet along the way.
[00:50:57] I love that. Anna.
[00:50:59] I think for me, just investigating the human condition, but particularly relationships. I read I, I think I say my website, I'm a bit of a genre slut. I read across a whole load of different genres.
[00:51:11] But what it is that really draws me to a story and keeps me compelled to turn pages and that gives me those warm feelings or even those feelings that you know, where you're just bursting. 'cause you want to scream. It's all about the human condition and the relationships between people. If a story hasn't got much in the way of a relationship between people.
[00:51:33] I tend to often get a little bit, I might put it down and pick up something that's more compelling. 'cause I'm always, I think I'm fascinated by human beings and what makes us tick, but also how we respond to each other. And yeah, I'm a strong believer in love. Just celebration my 25th wedding anniversary, oh, congratulations. So lovely.
[00:51:55] . Before we sign off, where can people find the book? Is it, where's it gonna be available through? It's just gonna be on Amazon again for, just to keep things simple. So it is, you can get you can pre-order now 99 cents through Amazon. And print copies will be available.
[00:52:12] So it launches 1st of October and is due to shut down end of the year. But at the moment, yeah, just Amazon. Although I am talking to my local bookshop, I might order a few copies, but we'll see. Okay, fantastic. Thanks so much for coming onto the podcast. I'll put your links if people wanna find out more about both of you in the show notes and the link also to, to grab the book on Amazon.
[00:52:35] We'll go into the show notes. So thank you for coming on to writes women. It's been lovely. It's been wonderful. Thank you so much Pam, and lovely chatting to you again, Megan. Lovely to see. See you both and thanks for having us. Pamela, I've been a long time admirer of your podcast, so it's been very special to be a guest.
[00:52:51] Brilliant. Thank you.